Author Topic: Hand Independence techniques?  (Read 432 times)

Willys_fueguino

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Hand Independence techniques?
« on: May 23, 2019, 11:25:21 AM »
Hi everyone. I'm new in the forum although I've read several posts. I live in Tierra del Fuego, Argentina, and we don't have any darbuka teachers so I had to learn watching YouTube videos. I've got some advance trough almost a year practicing, but I realized that there's not many videos to learn this specifically (there is exercise videos for  piano but don't seem useful for darbuka). So I need your help with this, and my question is, Which exercises did you use to learn the hand Independence? My goal is to learn to make some improvisations and is a MUST KNOW to do so. Greetings from the the of the world!



dHuGo

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Re: Hand Independence techniques?
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2019, 04:28:40 PM »
Hi, Willys, happy welcome.
Hand independence on Mediterranean drums in three words:
1. Play base pattern with strong hand only
2. Play ornamentation with weak hand or both (especially fast rolls)
3. Independence will increase right by the way

For your impro you may find this a good practical introduction:
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 04:32:33 PM by dHuGo »

Willys_fueguino

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Re: Hand Independence techniques?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2019, 09:10:05 PM »
thanks for the answer Dhugo. Yes I know, that's the concept, but for a newcomer to musical instruments it's very hard. I'm using this video   for practicing but want to use another technique or rythm to do some variation. I'm having trouble maintaining the base rythm while trying to add some improvisations and I know that it's because I'm not used to "think" this way (do a rythm in one hand and another with the other hand

bsfloyd

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Re: Hand Independence techniques?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2019, 07:05:49 AM »
Hello and welcome to the forums, Willyís!!!  Itís good to meet another new drummer.

Question - do you play any other percussion / drum instruments?

The videos above are good ones!  It seems to me that what you are looking for is how to not loose the base structure of the rhythm when you want to add ďfillsĒ to them.  Is this correct?  It is always essential to know the base pulse of the rhythm as it is the foundation.  Then, we add a bit of spice to the foundation as seen fit or what we feel comes from our hearts.

Iím sure youíve been all over YouTube in your hunting, but a set of videos that helped me greatly when I was starting out was Geoff Childers 10 Rhythms Every Darbuka Player Should Know.  It is a three part series.  I like them because he shows what the base rhythm is and then adds embellishments to some of them.  Your ability may already be past this, and if so I apologize.  But, this will help let us know where you are.  Happy drumming!


bsfloyd

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Re: Hand Independence techniques?
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2019, 07:07:21 AM »



dHuGo

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Re: Hand Independence techniques?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2019, 03:19:15 PM »
Sorry, I've just not the time to overlook all clips. Further comment comes later.

But Willys, have a look at this old topic, maybe there's something usfull inside:
http://forum.arabinstruments.com/doumbek-advice-tips-questions-lessons/professional-breakdown-of-a-rhythmical-pattern/

Willys_fueguino

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Re: Hand Independence techniques?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2019, 05:22:02 PM »
bsfloyd, Yes you're right, the fills maintaining the base rythm is my problem. I started practicing rythms using Artem Uzunovs "Darbuka rythms" app for Android and watching many videos from YouTube (Geoff Childers included) but regarding to get hand Independence that's the only video I've found (and another one that looks like it was a VHS video). To answer your question I have to say that I don't play any instruments. This is the first instrument that I have that I've been really interested and committed to learn, partially because my wife is a belly dance teacher. So returning to my question, I was wondering if there's another techniques that you used to learn the hand Independence that aren't in YouTube.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 05:23:50 PM by Willys_fueguino »

Willys_fueguino

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Re: Hand Independence techniques?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2019, 05:40:06 PM »
dHugo yes... That's what I mean. Actually I understand the notes D t T k K and I'm trying to learn the timings (I understand the concept but lack the practice of identify them). In the first part of the post you wrote exactly what kind of exercises I need to do, but I need a video of that to understand how does it work and sound, to compare it with water I'm doing.

dHuGo

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Re: Hand Independence techniques?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2019, 11:43:27 PM »
Ok, I'm using notation convention from the Khafif-site.
By mine small and capital letters show non-accented notes and the strokes to play heavier or as accents as well.
The text actually came as an explanation of


bsfloyd

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Re: Hand Independence techniques?
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2019, 07:34:44 AM »
Hello Willys - Iím afraid what helped me in my learning the middle eastern rhythms on the darbuka might not be applicable to your situation - I have been playing other percussion instruments for over 30 years (as well as many other stringed and wind instruments).  I came to the darbuka with knowledge of being to read music rhythm and notation, which of course helped me greatly.  My biggest challenge was the plane the drum head was on.  Percussion instruments such as djembe, conga, bongo, even drum set are on a more horizontal plane whereas the darbuka is on a more vertical plane.

My recommendation - it is known that much of these ďfolkĒ rhythms are taught and learned by ear.  Certainly this can work best if you have an actual teacher to do so.  If you are like me, you may not have a darbuka teacher in your area.  My suggestion would be to listen to instruction CDís.  There are several out there and many of them have the common format of rhythms written on the inset.  A couple that come to mind are Hossam Ramzyís Rhythms of the Nile, and Uncle Mafufoís 25 Essential Rhythms.

Perhaps some other learning material might be the Marry Ellen Donald literature.  I have no experience with this material but Iíve read that it was well liked back in the day.

Willys_fueguino

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Re: Hand Independence techniques?
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2019, 07:13:31 PM »
Bsrfloyd, thanks for the answer. When it comes to rythms, variations and timings I use mainly the app that I mentioned before, that's not the problem. I don't have any teachers here, and my problem is to develop the and Independence techniques using my darbuka. There only 2 videos on that subject in YouTube and my question was if somebody here knows another using the darbuka. Since this is my first musical instrument I'm this is a new world for me, and I became aware that I need to learn that skill.

dHuGo

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Re: Hand Independence techniques?
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2019, 12:46:31 AM »
Willys, there's one thing you should know:
Independence isn't that skill. - It's an ability - like upright walking!

You may think on your steps, but you don't think on your balance! - Most time we remember it only when we're afraid to lose it ... and it's almost impossible to do any right step then!!! - And now you see a juggler walking the tightrope... Do you get was I mean?! - Same with independence:

Actually the skill is not to worry about! And I see you're worried a lot...

bsfloyd

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Re: Hand Independence techniques?
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2019, 06:06:46 PM »
Hello Willys!  Iím sorry, there are no other lesson techniques I found in regards to your question.  Surely the video you found and posted cover this independence technique, as does the video dHuGo posted earlier on in the thread.

I guess hand independence was never a concern to me as Iíve played percussion instruments for many, many years.  Because of this, limb independence comes more natural to me.  And, you may find as you watch different videos of different players that they are not always the same ;). Keep in mind that the darbuka / doumbek is a folk instrument to many.

However, dHuGo posted a link to one of the best sites for darbuka learning and playing that I know of - the khafif site.  When I was applying my percussive skills to the darbuka, I just followed the rule of D(oum) and T(ek) with my right (dominant) hand, and the k(a) with my left hand.  The khafif site has the many, many rhythms in their basic form and then the rhythms with their fills form.  While this doesnít fully go into soling mode, it does offer a good fancier version of the rhythms.  IMO, the soloing will come natural as these foundations are mastered.

On another note, my wife is currently undergoing belly dance learnings.  She is much preferring the Egyptian style of dance.  It is much fun to be able to play the rhythms for her.  In your regards, your wife is a dance instructor, are there any other drummers in your area you could learn from/with?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 06:08:59 PM by bsfloyd »

Willys_fueguino

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Re: Hand Independence techniques?
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2019, 06:58:02 AM »
Willys, there's one thing you should know:
Independence isn't that skill. - It's an ability - like upright walking!

You may think on your steps, but you don't think on your balance! - Most time we remember it only when we're afraid to lose it ... and it's almost impossible to do any right step then!!! - And now you see a juggler walking the tightrope... Do you get was I mean?! - Same with independence:

Actually the skill is not to worry about! And I see you're worried a lot...

That's right... I worry too much  :D It took me forever to learn and re-learn and get some middle speed continous rolls, and now I realized that without that skill I can't do nothing but to play some middle difficulty songs.

Hello Willys!  Iím sorry, there are no other lesson techniques I found in regards to your question.  Surely the video you found and posted cover this independence technique, as does the video dHuGo posted earlier on in the thread.

I guess hand independence was never a concern to me as Iíve played percussion instruments for many, many years.  Because of this, limb independence comes more natural to me.  And, you may find as you watch different videos of different players that they are not always the same ;). Keep in mind that the darbuka / doumbek is a folk instrument to many.

However, dHuGo posted a link to one of the best sites for darbuka learning and playing that I know of - the khafif site.  When I was applying my percussive skills to the darbuka, I just followed the rule of D(oum) and T(ek) with my right (dominant) hand, and the k(a) with my left hand.  The khafif site has the many, many rhythms in their basic form and then the rhythms with their fills form.  While this doesnít fully go into soling mode, it does offer a good fancier version of the rhythms.  IMO, the soloing will come natural as these foundations are mastered.

On another note, my wife is currently undergoing belly dance learnings.  She is much preferring the Egyptian style of dance.  It is much fun to be able to play the rhythms for her.  In your regards, your wife is a dance instructor, are there any other drummers in your area you could learn from/with?

There are drummers, but as far as I know I'm the only one in my state that has medium derbake playings skills. (Look for Tierra del Fuego, Argentina in google maps and you'll understand  ;D).

Found 2 more videos:





And this ones helped me with that too






dHuGo

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Re: Hand Independence techniques?
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2019, 02:57:29 AM »
Hi, Willys, I wouldn't stop a lot on those independence skills!  - My reason: That "skill" doesn't carry any information from performer to audience. What independence give is better organizations and handling of more and more complex patterns - that's all.

It is a time to drill those complex patterns, first before you may perform! - Though I see you avoid those skill drills doing independence drills instead.

Me, I had learned percussion on Congas for about five years when I started with Darbouka myself - transforming my former skills to the new drum. I'd see me an intermediate on Congas that time.

We had had independence drills while our Conga courses time by time. They came as an addition to new figures we had to perform, i.e. when we started with triplets we got 2:3-beat drills to do as homework - on edge of table, on knees - on every thing, wherefrom we could get some feeling in timing, haptics and sounding the principle.

By forcing that special kind of independence (and only) we got a bit more time in lessons to do the work on our triplet expressions:
About 5 to 10 minutes we started our lessons with 2:3 drills to warm up. Thereafter full power to do the lot of triplet variations!!! - So we had a complete expressive new groove for our repertoire to add at the end of lessons every time!

Same procedure with Aviel's Darbouka Lesson #7! - I had my problems in timing when performing pattern after the clip. I stopped to find the lag in my skills. ...and now, step by step, did I come to better results - until I was able to drill the whole as whole...

That's the way how independence may help you by your drills. It may be drilled separately, but that doesn't  change anything in that you have to drill your repertoire mainly!

After all my words: I can highly recommend you to follow the Darbouka Passion methodics. It really can increase your handling experience. - And that it is: All depends on this what you may perform on your own drum. You can drill the independence... - Ok, you get a great independence but no expression. - Or...

...you may drill your beloved expressions, your repertoire up and down, become a great performer at least - and you know, there is no great performer without those independence skills...!